I Still Say MPD Multis Don't Own "System"
Mar. 28th, 2026 08:43 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
lb_leeRogan: hungryghosts nerd-sniped me with, of course, multi etymology! Specifically, an anthology that looked like it might contradict my previous posts on the history of the use of "system" in plural space!, Richard P. Kluft was the editor; it's Childhood Antecedents of Multiple Personality from 1985!
In my previous posts, I'd noticed that Kluft used the term "system of personalities" or "system of alters" in his later 1988 work "The Phenomenology and Treatment Of Extremely Complex Multiple Personality Disorder." But I was willing to stake a lot on that not being the same as how Richard Schwartz, in "Our Multiple Selves" in 1987, used "system" and "parts" as standalone nouns.
"System" is an extremely general term in English. We have plumbing systems, nervous systems, family systems, computer systems... "system" basically means any group of independent yet interrelated parts that interact with each other in a complex enough way that the system can take on almost an independent life of its own, beyond those parts. (Using a family as an example, sometimes a family will get stuck into a self-defeating behavior pattern that none of the individuals want or like, but also can't seem to break out of or figure out where this pattern came from, or even that it's there.) Because the word is so general-purpose, "system" is a pain in the ass to trace; it's not as simple as just looking to see if someone uses the word "system" to refer to a multiple. It's about the context and framing of the term, the specifics of meaning.
For years now, I've argued that Kluft's use of "system of alters" or "system of personalities" is subtly but significantly different from Schwartz's plain "system" or "[adjective] system," for the simple reason that I can't remember ever hearing a multi say "I'm a system of personalities" or describing "our system of alters." It's always, "we're a system," or "the Elemental System," or "a gateway system," or whatever. And I still will happily stake all my bodily organs (my bodily system, as it were) on how any multi who uses "system" and "parts" in the same breath is pulling from Schwartz, NOT Kluft.
That said, this anthology does use system as a standalone noun in 1985! (And don't you dare stop reading here, I'm not done.) Here are all the times writers use the standalone term "system" or "[adjective] system" in a way that could be connected to how plurals use it now (all page numbers are per the paper book; I also say which author and article it was):
Hey, wow, that sounds very much like how Schwartz uses it, doesn't it? Maybe I owe Braun and Sachs an organ!
Well, this leads to the question: is a psychological system, as Kluft means it, the same as a plural system as nowadays plurals mean it? That's a more complicated question than it appears; language and meaning are squishy, and we're kinda running up against the edge of what English is equipped to describe. More data points needed!
Someone with a strict medical point of view would probably be nodding along and saying, "yes, yes, this is right," but I'm not sure "MPD is a system" and "WE are a system" mean the same thing.
See, this "psychological system" seems more to describe a greater, more gestalt idea of someone's psyche than how plurals these days use "system," which mostly just means "our roster" or maybe "our roster and our headspace."
"System" here is used to describe someone before they become multiple. Plurals these days generally don't refer to "their system" from when they were singlet, even though, if you're talking about a greater psychological thing, it'd be accurate. Singlet or plural, we retain these psychological systems! But that psychological system has a totally different meaning than when a plural calls themselves "a psychological system" (meaning, that they view themselves from a mental science perspective, with no religious or otherordinary aspects).
Yeah, here they're specifically using "system" to mean a complex series of interrelated strategies to keep someone/s from being overwhelmed by their environment. It also doesn't really make room for other traumatized dissociatives, who may not be multi at all. (Remember this is 1985. MPD had only existed for four years as a diagnosis at this point!)
Not sure here whether they mean it in the "roster and/or headspace" way or the greater psychological way.
Again, unsure. But then, I found this one:
AHA! All right, I feel pretty certain now: no plural on earth, none I have ever fucking met or read about, have EVER used the term "single system." Indeed, "system" and "singlet" are treated as antitheses: a singlet isn't a system, by that slang usage! They're a psychological system, sure, but they aren't a PLURAL system, of any type! And Frischholz and Braun both came from the University of Illinois, Chicago, while Sachs worked in private practice in Highland Park, a suburb of Chicago, so it doesn't seem TOTALLY unreasonable that they may mean roughly the same thing. And gee golly, go figure, Richard Schwartz also worked at the University of Illinois, Chicago (though I'm not sure if he was at this precise moment)! It's not possible these people influenced each other or the terms they used!
On top of all that, it is plenty possible that plurals mixed and matched Kluft's "system of..." usage and Schwartz's "system" and "parts" usage to come up with their own terminology! Kluft was a pretty big dog, at least back in the day, and Schwartz was being cited by name as a reason for one non-MPD multi's vocabulary in March 1992.
But frankly, even if Frischholz and Braun and Sachs did invent the term system, and even if that did solely prove the term was originally intended solely for MPD (which it doesn't, unless the multis claiming it ALSO want to admit "single system" allows singlets to call themselves systems)... non-MPD systems have been using it since March 1992. That's thirty-four years of common use, and I can testify that during my Livejournal multi days, "system" was considered an inoffensive, common use term in the late 2000s and the early 2010s. It only started becoming "controversial" with tumblr around 2014, with the whole "using medical terms is cultural appropriation" absurdity.
Because, let me emphasize. The whole "cultural appropriation" argument, when used in places like tumblr, usually refers to an oppressed culture having their cherished relics and rites stolen by outsiders. Don't pretend that the language singlet doctors use to refer to us is comparable. It's insulting.
Citations
Hineni. (1992). posted for asar.47 (Hineni)/Internal Family Model [Usenet post]. Retrieved from https://groups.google.com/g/alt.sexual.abuse.recovery/c/6f2Mi_sRV9w/m/oSkO-JkPskcJ
Kluft, R.P. (Ed.). (1985). Childhood antecedents of multiple personality. Washington, DC: American Psychiatric Press. Retrieved from https://archive.org/details/childhoodanteced00kluf
Kluft, Richard. (1988). The Phenomenology And Treatment Of Extremely Complex Multiple Personality Disorder. Dissociation, Vol. 1, No. 4. Retrieved from https://scholarsbank.uoregon.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1794/1396/Diss_1_4_8_OCR_rev.pdf?sequence=4
Schwartz, Richard. (1987). Our Multiple Selves: applying systems thinking to the inner family. Family Therapy Networker, 11, 24-31, 80-83. Retrieved from https://foundationifs.org/images/Schwartz_1987_Our_Multiple_Selves.pdf (Sorry, not screen-reader-able.)
hungryghosts nerd-sniped me with, of course, multi etymology! Specifically, an anthology that looked like it might contradict my previous posts on the history of the use of "system" in plural space!, Richard P. Kluft was the editor; it's Childhood Antecedents of Multiple Personality from 1985!In my previous posts, I'd noticed that Kluft used the term "system of personalities" or "system of alters" in his later 1988 work "The Phenomenology and Treatment Of Extremely Complex Multiple Personality Disorder." But I was willing to stake a lot on that not being the same as how Richard Schwartz, in "Our Multiple Selves" in 1987, used "system" and "parts" as standalone nouns.
"System" is an extremely general term in English. We have plumbing systems, nervous systems, family systems, computer systems... "system" basically means any group of independent yet interrelated parts that interact with each other in a complex enough way that the system can take on almost an independent life of its own, beyond those parts. (Using a family as an example, sometimes a family will get stuck into a self-defeating behavior pattern that none of the individuals want or like, but also can't seem to break out of or figure out where this pattern came from, or even that it's there.) Because the word is so general-purpose, "system" is a pain in the ass to trace; it's not as simple as just looking to see if someone uses the word "system" to refer to a multiple. It's about the context and framing of the term, the specifics of meaning.
For years now, I've argued that Kluft's use of "system of alters" or "system of personalities" is subtly but significantly different from Schwartz's plain "system" or "[adjective] system," for the simple reason that I can't remember ever hearing a multi say "I'm a system of personalities" or describing "our system of alters." It's always, "we're a system," or "the Elemental System," or "a gateway system," or whatever. And I still will happily stake all my bodily organs (my bodily system, as it were) on how any multi who uses "system" and "parts" in the same breath is pulling from Schwartz, NOT Kluft.
That said, this anthology does use system as a standalone noun in 1985! (And don't you dare stop reading here, I'm not done.) Here are all the times writers use the standalone term "system" or "[adjective] system" in a way that could be connected to how plurals use it now (all page numbers are per the paper book; I also say which author and article it was):
"information acquired while one personality is in executive control of the body is still available to the system, although it may not be consciously accessible to other personalities at a given point in time" (pg. 41-42, "The Development of Multiple Personality Disorder: Predisposing, Precipitating, and Perpetuating Factors" by Bennett G. Braun, M.D., M.S. and Roberta G. Sachs)
Hey, wow, that sounds very much like how Schwartz uses it, doesn't it? Maybe I owe Braun and Sachs an organ!
"the psychological system in multiple personality disorder patients in a sense 'created' the alternate personalities." (45-46, ibid)
Well, this leads to the question: is a psychological system, as Kluft means it, the same as a plural system as nowadays plurals mean it? That's a more complicated question than it appears; language and meaning are squishy, and we're kinda running up against the edge of what English is equipped to describe. More data points needed!
"The personalities that appear, and that have a range of emotions, memories, and behaviors, make up a system we call multiple personality disorder." (50, ibid)
Someone with a strict medical point of view would probably be nodding along and saying, "yes, yes, this is right," but I'm not sure "MPD is a system" and "WE are a system" mean the same thing.
"multiple personality disorder patients repeatedly use dissociation as a defense against stress. Since the dissociation usually results in a temporary relief from stress and anxiety, the repeated use of this ability as a coping mechanism leads to its being continuously reinforced. Hence, it becomes the preferred or dominant form of defense in the individual's psychological system." (50, ibid)
See, this "psychological system" seems more to describe a greater, more gestalt idea of someone's psyche than how plurals these days use "system," which mostly just means "our roster" or maybe "our roster and our headspace."
"predisposing factors include both individual (biological capacity to dissociate, individual psychodynamics) and environmental (family dynamics) variables. These factors interact with inconsistent love/abuse or other traumatic stimuli until one particular precipitating event causes an initial split. This is reinforcing because it protects the system from the overwhelming anxiety associated with the event. If sufficient perpetuating phenomena are present to stimulate repeated dissociation, an alternate personality begins to develop." (54, ibid)
"System" here is used to describe someone before they become multiple. Plurals these days generally don't refer to "their system" from when they were singlet, even though, if you're talking about a greater psychological thing, it'd be accurate. Singlet or plural, we retain these psychological systems! But that psychological system has a totally different meaning than when a plural calls themselves "a psychological system" (meaning, that they view themselves from a mental science perspective, with no religious or otherordinary aspects).
"The present model emphasizes that multiple personality disorder only occurs in individuals who have a natural inborn capacity to dissociate, and are exposed to some type of overwhelming anxiety that promotes the continued use of a dissociative defense system." (60, ibid)
Yeah, here they're specifically using "system" to mean a complex series of interrelated strategies to keep someone/s from being overwhelmed by their environment. It also doesn't really make room for other traumatized dissociatives, who may not be multi at all. (Remember this is 1985. MPD had only existed for four years as a diagnosis at this point!)
"Dissociative fragments produced by precipitating events that are not united by a common theme are still present in the system, but do not usually develop into distinct personalities." (60, ibid)
Not sure here whether they mean it in the "roster and/or headspace" way or the greater psychological way.
"we need to know more about how dissociation operates as a psychological defense mechanism in protecting the psychological system from overwhelming anxiety." (109, "The Relationship Among Dissociation, Hypnosis, and Child Abuse in the Development of Multiple Personality Disorder" by Edward J. Frischholz, M.A)
Again, unsure. But then, I found this one:
"The occurrence of the "hidden observer" in multiple personality disorder patients was also found to be closely related to the patients' level of adaptive functioning. Those multiple personality disorder patients who were just beginning treatment all showed a "hidden observer." However, multiple personality disorder patients who had been in treatment for several years showed almost no evidence of this phenomenon. It was almost as if these patients appeared to reject the metaphor of the "hidden observer," perhaps because they were on their way toward integrating their various personalities into a single system." (117, ibid, emphasis mine)
AHA! All right, I feel pretty certain now: no plural on earth, none I have ever fucking met or read about, have EVER used the term "single system." Indeed, "system" and "singlet" are treated as antitheses: a singlet isn't a system, by that slang usage! They're a psychological system, sure, but they aren't a PLURAL system, of any type! And Frischholz and Braun both came from the University of Illinois, Chicago, while Sachs worked in private practice in Highland Park, a suburb of Chicago, so it doesn't seem TOTALLY unreasonable that they may mean roughly the same thing. And gee golly, go figure, Richard Schwartz also worked at the University of Illinois, Chicago (though I'm not sure if he was at this precise moment)! It's not possible these people influenced each other or the terms they used!
On top of all that, it is plenty possible that plurals mixed and matched Kluft's "system of..." usage and Schwartz's "system" and "parts" usage to come up with their own terminology! Kluft was a pretty big dog, at least back in the day, and Schwartz was being cited by name as a reason for one non-MPD multi's vocabulary in March 1992.
But frankly, even if Frischholz and Braun and Sachs did invent the term system, and even if that did solely prove the term was originally intended solely for MPD (which it doesn't, unless the multis claiming it ALSO want to admit "single system" allows singlets to call themselves systems)... non-MPD systems have been using it since March 1992. That's thirty-four years of common use, and I can testify that during my Livejournal multi days, "system" was considered an inoffensive, common use term in the late 2000s and the early 2010s. It only started becoming "controversial" with tumblr around 2014, with the whole "using medical terms is cultural appropriation" absurdity.
Because, let me emphasize. The whole "cultural appropriation" argument, when used in places like tumblr, usually refers to an oppressed culture having their cherished relics and rites stolen by outsiders. Don't pretend that the language singlet doctors use to refer to us is comparable. It's insulting.
Citations
Hineni. (1992). posted for asar.47 (Hineni)/Internal Family Model [Usenet post]. Retrieved from https://groups.google.com/g/alt.sexual.abuse.recovery/c/6f2Mi_sRV9w/m/oSkO-JkPskcJ
Kluft, R.P. (Ed.). (1985). Childhood antecedents of multiple personality. Washington, DC: American Psychiatric Press. Retrieved from https://archive.org/details/childhoodanteced00kluf
Kluft, Richard. (1988). The Phenomenology And Treatment Of Extremely Complex Multiple Personality Disorder. Dissociation, Vol. 1, No. 4. Retrieved from https://scholarsbank.uoregon.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1794/1396/Diss_1_4_8_OCR_rev.pdf?sequence=4
Schwartz, Richard. (1987). Our Multiple Selves: applying systems thinking to the inner family. Family Therapy Networker, 11, 24-31, 80-83. Retrieved from https://foundationifs.org/images/Schwartz_1987_Our_Multiple_Selves.pdf (Sorry, not screen-reader-able.)
