Many-Selved Etymology: "Headmate"
Aug. 21st, 2025 07:41 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
lb_leeEDIT: sobqjmv_sphinx expanded on my research and proved it was used by multiples before DesperateFans! Check it out! https://sobqjmv-sphinx.dreamwidth.org/5620.html
Hungry Ghosts have discovered they can nerd snipe us by asking us, "Hey, we heard that 'headmate' came from soulbonders, is that true?" We honestly didn't think we'd discover it, but thanks to the amazing power of ljsear.ch, we got a really good start!
Meaning: 1. (RP, original term) the relationship one role-playing character (AKA a sockpuppet or "pup") had to another, as opposed to their relationship to their player (AKA "typist"). 2. The relationship between any tenants of the same vessel.
Coiner: the DesperateFans roleplaying community on Livejournal? (First used by Pollution/mr_p_white?)
When: by 2005/4/18
Rise and Fall:
Okay, so the first thing I did was dig through my old soulbond record compilations: my local copies of Laura Gilkey's files,winreyplace's PDF compilations of Eclective's and Lyn's early writings, and the Reddit slapdash back-up of the SB database (which winreyplace has also compiled and cleaned up here). That covered a date range from roughly 1998-2005 and "Headmate" was not used anywhere.
I've also dug through the Google Groups back-ups of Usenet, only to discover Headmate is the name of a piece of boat. Before mid-2005, all the results I could find were from things like rec.boats. Not relevant. (Ditto early Livejournal army guys complaining about their NCOs and their disrespectful headmates. I think it was maybe a term for someone they shared a bathroom with?)
Now, it's possible "headmate" was a thing on an earlier role-playing group, done via AIM chat or private mailing list or even somewhere like Yahoo! Groups, but the first time I can find it on Livejournal is 2005/4/18 by a DesperateFans comm RP character, mr_p_white (Pollution from Good Omens) who refers to his host as “my typist” and refers to other RP characters as "headmates," as in: “Our newest headmate (well, newest to the community at any rate) is slightly annoyed…” It’s unclear how much autonomy mr_p_white has, but he’s referred to as a “puppet account” on his profile and all his comms are RP. (http://mr-p-white.livejournal.com/4152.html) He uses the term multiple times on his account.
It's hard to tell how many "pups" are being written by one "typist," but one thing seems clear enough, digging through the archives: all non-army uses of the term on Livejournal originate from this one RP comm.
Early DesperateFans Uses:
• 2005/5/6: Another DesperateFans character, justpepper, mentioned “I puked on my headmate, who’s a nice lady.” (http://justpepper.livejournal.com/606.html)
• 2005/5/22: Yet another DesperateFans puppet, sada_7days, says, “No, this has nothing to do with my headmates. This has more to do with whom I fear she will force to become my next headmate.” (https://sada-7days.livejournal.com/3367.html)
• 2005/5/27: DesperateFans puppet have_a_bathe posts an IRC transcript from their chat room, where someone named Maglor says “Everyone’s mad. Your headmate is madder. I’M the sanest one here.” (https://have-a-bathe.livejournal.com/775.html)
• 2005/5/30: Another group chat post that quotes, “Maitimo> [[Maedhros: *has grammar on the brain thanks to his headmate*]]” No clue how many of these puppets are played by the same typist, but with five different accounts, it seems likely to be more than one. (https://desperatelyooc.livejournal.com/10080.html)
(EDIT:sobqjmv_sphinx hoisted me on my own petard, referencing an oldass tumblr post I made on this idea ages ago! I'd totally forgotten about it! Surprise, although Desperate Fans remains the earliest source I can find for this, the term breaks containment to plural space earlier than I expected, 2005/7/20, when stealthdragon writes in the plural_living comm, "I think my headmates have been making a special effort to stay out of the way" (https://plural-living.livejournal.com/25477.html) stealthdragon only follows two plural comms, and plural-living states in its profile page, "We welcome multiples, medians, soulbonders, otherkin hosts and all other forms of functional plurality. This community is NOT for disordered systems," following Pavilion Hall ideas about plurality only including "functional" systems at the time--though oh boy, is that a story for a DIFFERENT day. (https://web.archive.org/web/20040919081942/https://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=plural_living) So "headmate" was being used in plural space earlier than I realized! Still no citations before DesperateFans, though! I also will note that stealthdragon was also a member of nonstupidplurals, where kangetsuhime was also a member, so kangetsuhime may have gotten the term from stealthdragon.)
For those first six months or so, DesperateFans (and its affiliated comms and AIM group chats) is the only place the term is used. Then it breaks containment into another LJ RP comm, madprophets (which seems focused on Good Omens). User dontcallmegabby posts an AIM group chat that includes the line from HerRoyalMajness, "I love getting inter-headmate pairings. I got Claudius/Hastur earlier, Erin. XD” It's unclear if HerRoyalMajness came from DesperateFans or elsewhere. (https://madprophets.livejournal.com/24459.html) It also appears in what seems to be a completely different RP journal, one that doesn’t follow any of the DesperateFans or madprophets stuff; the puppet (mary-tm) says of the_bride_tm, “She was an insufferable, demanding headmate but I liked her and always envied her strength.” (https://mary-tm.livejournal.com/13069.html)
On 2006/1/12, the term rises out of its original RP context and into the closely related “muse” subculture. Muse adira_tyree makes a post titled “Stolen from a fellow ‘headmate.’” (https://adira-tyree.livejournal.com/41097.html) She is not a member of any of the preceding RP LJ comms, but she is a member of the dear_muse comm, which I saw in the profiles of earlier RPers. Though the muses/puppets regularly complain about their muns/typists, all the RP comms are careful to insist on the lack of reality of the business, posting disclaimers like , “The author/maintainer of this journal is a participant in a creative writing project called Theatrical Muse where people portray actors, fictional characters, and other assorted people. The journal is produced and written by a fan and is meant for entertainment purposes only.” (https://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=theatrical_muse and http://web.archive.org/web/20040325180025/https://www.megchan.com/misc/disclaimer.html) There sure is a lot of overlap with soulbonding's ideas, but if anyone fesses up, I don't see it.
On 2006/5/23, I see the term first used by someone who's most definitely a soulbonder: kangetsuhime, who I was in the soulbonding comm with later (and later IDed multiple). “my headmate views humans somewhat as cute toys.” (https://community.livejournal.com/-anotherkin-/35547.html?thread=99547#t99547) The term also shows up being used by another LJ otherkin, jarandhel, whose LJ profile interests at the time include “channeling” and who is a member of the spiritfriends comm; he posts “My headmate, Alaereth, has a new favorite band.” He is not a member of any RP comms, so he probably got it from otherkin comms and means it in the non-RP sense. (https://jarandhel.livejournal.com/213848.html)
It's unclear whether it spread to SBer or otherkin groups first, or hit them both simultaneously. By 2006/7/17, though, it's definitely being used in the soulbonding comms, because the person I saw using it was a guy I knew, bound_innle/Allen. He talks about “worrying about my ‘headmate’ who's living in a war zone that used to be London.” His group was multiple, a soulbonder, and an RPer, but not otherkin, far as I know. (https://soulbond-domain.livejournal.com/23621.html)
However, there was a good amount of fluidity, and while jarandhel and bound_innle identified as multiple for sure later on, I don't know if they did then. The first hard reference I can find to a self-declared multiple using the term is komotomo, also on Livejournal. They write about a dream they had, “upon awakening, none of us were at the reins of our body. Someone else was for about a minute, and he was very confused. So were we. But, the body was still very sleepy and we fell back asleep. […] This morning, we've 'searched the headscape' as well as we can and have found no trace of another headmate […] We're still don't understand 100% of the multiple existence, so I can't say he's not lurking beyond the light of the campfire, to use an analogy.” (https://komotomo.livejournal.com/36990.html)
On 2007/2/28, the term first appears on the Livejournal multiplicity comm, again by someone I knew: a multiple going by crystalseraph: “your headmates can't reach you, even if you know they're trying...” (https://multiplicity-archives.dreamwidth.org/548745.html) The community picked it up and it started getting used more often from there on out.
When Livejournal plurals disperse to tumblr (around 2011, after the pluralanon fiasco), "headmate" becomes more and more common a term. (People obviously used it during those earlier days on Livejournal, but I remember people more often using words like "system member," "soulbonds/bonds/SBs," or "alter." On 2013/04/07, though, the term appears on Urban Dictionary, as “HeadMate,” used in its current sense, but with added tumblr-era snark about cultural appropriation wars of the time. It is “related to Otherkin, Multiple Systems, and Tumblr social justice activist [sic].” (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=HeadMate) The term officially is now in general use, and it's stayed pretty popular ever since, far as I know.
TL;DR: the term was coined by 2005 by roleplayers (who, if any of them were soulbonders, they sure didn't fess up to it anywhere I saw) and spread through Livejournal into plural comms like plural_living within three months. It also spread via RPers, muses and muns (2006-01), soulbonders (2006-05), before finally getting picked up by multiples (2007-02). With the fall of LJ, the term spread to tumblr, where it became so widespread that even Urban Dictionary heard about it.
If you manage to kick the can back earlier than this, please let me know! RP was never my realm, and my trail goes cold there.
Citations
Allen [bound_innle]. (2006/7/17). "Right, I'm officially desperate. (Does this count as 'drama?')." Retrieved from https://soulbond-domain.livejournal.com/23621.html
Dreamsinger, Jarin [jarandhel]. (2006/07/14). "*chuckles*." Retrieved from https://jarandhel.livejournal.com/213848.html
Gabriel [dontcallmegabby]. (2005/9/1). "Stripper!Crowley Chat, Part II." Retrieved from https://madprophets.livejournal.com/24459.html
Honeychurch, Freddy [have_a_bathe]. (2005/5/27). Retrieved from https://have-a-bathe.livejournal.com/775.html
kangetsuhime. (2006/5/23). "no subject." Retrieved from https://community.livejournal.com/-anotherkin-/35547.html?thread=99547#t99547
komotomo. (2006/9/22). "Dream Journal and maybe a new arrival." Retrieved from https://komotomo.livejournal.com/36990.html
Lestrange, Amanda [ceruleanblu]. (2005/5/30). "Miswindowed... it can happen to you!" Retrieved from https://desperatelyooc.livejournal.com/10080.html
Moonchild, Pippin Galadriel [justpepper]. (2005/5/6). "no subject." Retrieved from http://justpepper.livejournal.com/606.html
O'Brian, Mary [mary_tm]. (2005/9/1) "warming up an old LJ... - Random Question meme." Retrieved from https://mary-tm.livejournal.com/13069.html
plural_living. (2004/9/19)/. "Community Info." https://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=plural_living Internet Archive. Retrieved from https://web.archive.org/web/20040919081942/https://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=plural_living
Pollution [mr_p_white]. (2005/4/18). "no subject." Retrieved from http://mr-p-white.livejournal.com/4152.html
Seraph [crystalseraph]. (2007/2/28). "Fragmentation." Retrieved from https://multiplicity-archives.dreamwidth.org/548745.html
stealthdragon. (2005/7/20). "no subject." Retrieved from https://plural-living.livejournal.com/25477.html
Theatrical Muse [theatrical_muse]. (n.d.) "Profile." Retrieved from https://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=theatrical_muse
Tyree, Adira [adira_tyree]. (2006/1/12). "Stolen from a fellow 'headmate'." Retrieved from https://adira-tyree.livejournal.com/41097.html
Urbandictionary. (2013/04/17). "HeadMate". Retrieved from https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=HeadMate
Yamamura, Sadako [sada_7days]. (2005/5/22). "I should just show her the tape and get it over with." Retrieved from https://sada-7days.livejournal.com/3367.html
sobqjmv_sphinx expanded on my research and proved it was used by multiples before DesperateFans! Check it out! https://sobqjmv-sphinx.dreamwidth.org/5620.htmlHungry Ghosts have discovered they can nerd snipe us by asking us, "Hey, we heard that 'headmate' came from soulbonders, is that true?" We honestly didn't think we'd discover it, but thanks to the amazing power of ljsear.ch, we got a really good start!
Meaning: 1. (RP, original term) the relationship one role-playing character (AKA a sockpuppet or "pup") had to another, as opposed to their relationship to their player (AKA "typist"). 2. The relationship between any tenants of the same vessel.
Coiner: the DesperateFans roleplaying community on Livejournal? (First used by Pollution/mr_p_white?)
When: by 2005/4/18
Rise and Fall:
Okay, so the first thing I did was dig through my old soulbond record compilations: my local copies of Laura Gilkey's files,
winreyplace's PDF compilations of Eclective's and Lyn's early writings, and the Reddit slapdash back-up of the SB database (which winreyplace has also compiled and cleaned up here). That covered a date range from roughly 1998-2005 and "Headmate" was not used anywhere.I've also dug through the Google Groups back-ups of Usenet, only to discover Headmate is the name of a piece of boat. Before mid-2005, all the results I could find were from things like rec.boats. Not relevant. (Ditto early Livejournal army guys complaining about their NCOs and their disrespectful headmates. I think it was maybe a term for someone they shared a bathroom with?)
Now, it's possible "headmate" was a thing on an earlier role-playing group, done via AIM chat or private mailing list or even somewhere like Yahoo! Groups, but the first time I can find it on Livejournal is 2005/4/18 by a DesperateFans comm RP character, mr_p_white (Pollution from Good Omens) who refers to his host as “my typist” and refers to other RP characters as "headmates," as in: “Our newest headmate (well, newest to the community at any rate) is slightly annoyed…” It’s unclear how much autonomy mr_p_white has, but he’s referred to as a “puppet account” on his profile and all his comms are RP. (http://mr-p-white.livejournal.com/4152.html) He uses the term multiple times on his account.
It's hard to tell how many "pups" are being written by one "typist," but one thing seems clear enough, digging through the archives: all non-army uses of the term on Livejournal originate from this one RP comm.
Early DesperateFans Uses:
• 2005/5/6: Another DesperateFans character, justpepper, mentioned “I puked on my headmate, who’s a nice lady.” (http://justpepper.livejournal.com/606.html)
• 2005/5/22: Yet another DesperateFans puppet, sada_7days, says, “No, this has nothing to do with my headmates. This has more to do with whom I fear she will force to become my next headmate.” (https://sada-7days.livejournal.com/3367.html)
• 2005/5/27: DesperateFans puppet have_a_bathe posts an IRC transcript from their chat room, where someone named Maglor says “Everyone’s mad. Your headmate is madder. I’M the sanest one here.” (https://have-a-bathe.livejournal.com/775.html)
• 2005/5/30: Another group chat post that quotes, “Maitimo> [[Maedhros: *has grammar on the brain thanks to his headmate*]]” No clue how many of these puppets are played by the same typist, but with five different accounts, it seems likely to be more than one. (https://desperatelyooc.livejournal.com/10080.html)
(EDIT:
sobqjmv_sphinx hoisted me on my own petard, referencing an oldass tumblr post I made on this idea ages ago! I'd totally forgotten about it! Surprise, although Desperate Fans remains the earliest source I can find for this, the term breaks containment to plural space earlier than I expected, 2005/7/20, when stealthdragon writes in the plural_living comm, "I think my headmates have been making a special effort to stay out of the way" (https://plural-living.livejournal.com/25477.html) stealthdragon only follows two plural comms, and plural-living states in its profile page, "We welcome multiples, medians, soulbonders, otherkin hosts and all other forms of functional plurality. This community is NOT for disordered systems," following Pavilion Hall ideas about plurality only including "functional" systems at the time--though oh boy, is that a story for a DIFFERENT day. (https://web.archive.org/web/20040919081942/https://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=plural_living) So "headmate" was being used in plural space earlier than I realized! Still no citations before DesperateFans, though! I also will note that stealthdragon was also a member of nonstupidplurals, where kangetsuhime was also a member, so kangetsuhime may have gotten the term from stealthdragon.)For those first six months or so, DesperateFans (and its affiliated comms and AIM group chats) is the only place the term is used. Then it breaks containment into another LJ RP comm, madprophets (which seems focused on Good Omens). User dontcallmegabby posts an AIM group chat that includes the line from HerRoyalMajness, "I love getting inter-headmate pairings. I got Claudius/Hastur earlier, Erin. XD” It's unclear if HerRoyalMajness came from DesperateFans or elsewhere. (https://madprophets.livejournal.com/24459.html) It also appears in what seems to be a completely different RP journal, one that doesn’t follow any of the DesperateFans or madprophets stuff; the puppet (mary-tm) says of the_bride_tm, “She was an insufferable, demanding headmate but I liked her and always envied her strength.” (https://mary-tm.livejournal.com/13069.html)
On 2006/1/12, the term rises out of its original RP context and into the closely related “muse” subculture. Muse adira_tyree makes a post titled “Stolen from a fellow ‘headmate.’” (https://adira-tyree.livejournal.com/41097.html) She is not a member of any of the preceding RP LJ comms, but she is a member of the dear_muse comm, which I saw in the profiles of earlier RPers. Though the muses/puppets regularly complain about their muns/typists, all the RP comms are careful to insist on the lack of reality of the business, posting disclaimers like , “The author/maintainer of this journal is a participant in a creative writing project called Theatrical Muse where people portray actors, fictional characters, and other assorted people. The journal is produced and written by a fan and is meant for entertainment purposes only.” (https://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=theatrical_muse and http://web.archive.org/web/20040325180025/https://www.megchan.com/misc/disclaimer.html) There sure is a lot of overlap with soulbonding's ideas, but if anyone fesses up, I don't see it.
On 2006/5/23, I see the term first used by someone who's most definitely a soulbonder: kangetsuhime, who I was in the soulbonding comm with later (and later IDed multiple). “my headmate views humans somewhat as cute toys.” (https://community.livejournal.com/-anotherkin-/35547.html?thread=99547#t99547) The term also shows up being used by another LJ otherkin, jarandhel, whose LJ profile interests at the time include “channeling” and who is a member of the spiritfriends comm; he posts “My headmate, Alaereth, has a new favorite band.” He is not a member of any RP comms, so he probably got it from otherkin comms and means it in the non-RP sense. (https://jarandhel.livejournal.com/213848.html)
It's unclear whether it spread to SBer or otherkin groups first, or hit them both simultaneously. By 2006/7/17, though, it's definitely being used in the soulbonding comms, because the person I saw using it was a guy I knew, bound_innle/Allen. He talks about “worrying about my ‘headmate’ who's living in a war zone that used to be London.” His group was multiple, a soulbonder, and an RPer, but not otherkin, far as I know. (https://soulbond-domain.livejournal.com/23621.html)
However, there was a good amount of fluidity, and while jarandhel and bound_innle identified as multiple for sure later on, I don't know if they did then. The first hard reference I can find to a self-declared multiple using the term is komotomo, also on Livejournal. They write about a dream they had, “upon awakening, none of us were at the reins of our body. Someone else was for about a minute, and he was very confused. So were we. But, the body was still very sleepy and we fell back asleep. […] This morning, we've 'searched the headscape' as well as we can and have found no trace of another headmate […] We're still don't understand 100% of the multiple existence, so I can't say he's not lurking beyond the light of the campfire, to use an analogy.” (https://komotomo.livejournal.com/36990.html)
On 2007/2/28, the term first appears on the Livejournal multiplicity comm, again by someone I knew: a multiple going by crystalseraph: “your headmates can't reach you, even if you know they're trying...” (https://multiplicity-archives.dreamwidth.org/548745.html) The community picked it up and it started getting used more often from there on out.
When Livejournal plurals disperse to tumblr (around 2011, after the pluralanon fiasco), "headmate" becomes more and more common a term. (People obviously used it during those earlier days on Livejournal, but I remember people more often using words like "system member," "soulbonds/bonds/SBs," or "alter." On 2013/04/07, though, the term appears on Urban Dictionary, as “HeadMate,” used in its current sense, but with added tumblr-era snark about cultural appropriation wars of the time. It is “related to Otherkin, Multiple Systems, and Tumblr social justice activist [sic].” (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=HeadMate) The term officially is now in general use, and it's stayed pretty popular ever since, far as I know.
TL;DR: the term was coined by 2005 by roleplayers (who, if any of them were soulbonders, they sure didn't fess up to it anywhere I saw) and spread through Livejournal into plural comms like plural_living within three months. It also spread via RPers, muses and muns (2006-01), soulbonders (2006-05), before finally getting picked up by multiples (2007-02). With the fall of LJ, the term spread to tumblr, where it became so widespread that even Urban Dictionary heard about it.
If you manage to kick the can back earlier than this, please let me know! RP was never my realm, and my trail goes cold there.
Citations
Allen [bound_innle]. (2006/7/17). "Right, I'm officially desperate. (Does this count as 'drama?')." Retrieved from https://soulbond-domain.livejournal.com/23621.html
Dreamsinger, Jarin [jarandhel]. (2006/07/14). "*chuckles*." Retrieved from https://jarandhel.livejournal.com/213848.html
Gabriel [dontcallmegabby]. (2005/9/1). "Stripper!Crowley Chat, Part II." Retrieved from https://madprophets.livejournal.com/24459.html
Honeychurch, Freddy [have_a_bathe]. (2005/5/27). Retrieved from https://have-a-bathe.livejournal.com/775.html
kangetsuhime. (2006/5/23). "no subject." Retrieved from https://community.livejournal.com/-anotherkin-/35547.html?thread=99547#t99547
komotomo. (2006/9/22). "Dream Journal and maybe a new arrival." Retrieved from https://komotomo.livejournal.com/36990.html
Lestrange, Amanda [ceruleanblu]. (2005/5/30). "Miswindowed... it can happen to you!" Retrieved from https://desperatelyooc.livejournal.com/10080.html
Moonchild, Pippin Galadriel [justpepper]. (2005/5/6). "no subject." Retrieved from http://justpepper.livejournal.com/606.html
O'Brian, Mary [mary_tm]. (2005/9/1) "warming up an old LJ... - Random Question meme." Retrieved from https://mary-tm.livejournal.com/13069.html
plural_living. (2004/9/19)/. "Community Info." https://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=plural_living Internet Archive. Retrieved from https://web.archive.org/web/20040919081942/https://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=plural_living
Pollution [mr_p_white]. (2005/4/18). "no subject." Retrieved from http://mr-p-white.livejournal.com/4152.html
Seraph [crystalseraph]. (2007/2/28). "Fragmentation." Retrieved from https://multiplicity-archives.dreamwidth.org/548745.html
stealthdragon. (2005/7/20). "no subject." Retrieved from https://plural-living.livejournal.com/25477.html
Theatrical Muse [theatrical_muse]. (n.d.) "Profile." Retrieved from https://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=theatrical_muse
Tyree, Adira [adira_tyree]. (2006/1/12). "Stolen from a fellow 'headmate'." Retrieved from https://adira-tyree.livejournal.com/41097.html
Urbandictionary. (2013/04/17). "HeadMate". Retrieved from https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=HeadMate
Yamamura, Sadako [sada_7days]. (2005/5/22). "I should just show her the tape and get it over with." Retrieved from https://sada-7days.livejournal.com/3367.html
no subject
Date: 2025-08-22 04:02 am (UTC)It makes sense to me that some of our current plural lingo started with RPers. There's a broad spectrum of plurality, and some RPers who don't call themselves plural have described experiences that, to me, sound very plural. Thanks for the archival and history work you do!
no subject
Date: 2025-08-22 06:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2025-08-22 04:46 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2025-08-22 02:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2025-08-23 09:46 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2025-08-23 08:36 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2025-08-24 03:55 pm (UTC)This is a Tumblr reblog of a post by Rogan with a couple of examples of headmate being used by systems on LJ in 2005. Figured you would want to see it. These are shortly after the roleplay uses.
no subject
Date: 2025-08-24 11:36 pm (UTC)Okay, so I made a mistake back then with
And a commenter on the oldass tumblr post mentions it could've come from Stephen King! I never read him, so that gives me a new avenue to go down, how exciting!
no subject
Date: 2025-08-24 11:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2025-08-25 12:25 am (UTC)And stealthdragon shared a comm with kangetsuhime, so kangetsuhime may have gotten the term from stealthdragon! Heck yeah!
I've updated the post with this info. Thanks again!