lb_lee: A happy little brain with a bandage on it, enclosed within a circle with the words LB Lee. (Default)
[personal profile] lb_lee
So, my copy of Oneselves arrived, and I finished reading it!  It was exactly what I needed: brief thumbnail descriptions of a bunch of Ye Olde Multis from 1811-1981. (The book was published in 1984, so is itself a magical time capsule to before the Memory Wars.) It's also pretty exhaustive in its sources, so I can fact-check everything I read.  Hooray and thank goodness!  Here's a few interesting tidbits:

First, the multiple known as "Alma Z." They were around back in the 1890s, and there were three headmates, who went by "Number One" (the "original," I guess), "Twoey," and "The Boy," who may or may not have been male, it's not clear to me.  Apparently all three got along famously, wanted each other to do well, were generally welcomed and liked by their family and folks around them, and it looks like their multiplicity wasn't considered a problem that needed to be solved. (Although Number One didn't have shared memory with Twoey and the Boy, they did with her, and Twoey would leave notes for Number One letting her know what'd happened and what she needed to know.) Though Oneselves isn't available online or in ebook form, you can read a decent chunk about the Almas here.

Second, seeing how the camps of multiples (though many wouldn't be considered multiple now) changed over time.  You had the fugue cases like Ansel Bourne (the guys who'd basically walk off, blank out, and then come to in another town months or years later, discovering they'd been living and going about their business for a while), the spiritualists (who saw themselves as channeling spirits, had overlap with creativity, mediumship, and reincarnation), the age regressors (who returned to infancy and had to be retaught everything), and then giving way to the super-traumatized multis.  It's really interesting!  At least a few of the cases seem to have been related to brain damage or head injuries.

And then you have the reactions of the folks around them.  There's a number of families who seem to have basically gone, "Welp, I guess this is how it is now" and just got back to business.  And then you have John Kinsel, who started switching while in college, and apparently all the folks around him knew what his deal was.  His classmates took to getting him to switch back by rubbing his face, and then when that stopped working, spanking him with heavy books. (Eventually that stopped working too and they gave up.  John's roommate was apparently instrumental in helping them out.)

Finally, there's a multiple who I hadn't heard of but the one multi in the book who was absolutely for certain not white--"Jonah," who was black and apparently had every psych test in the book thrown at him in the 1970s.  He's apparently pretty well known in academic circles, but I'd managed to just... miss him until now, I guess.  So I'll be digging into the citations on that!  Dude might still be alive! (If you want to Google them, Googling his headmates' names are easier, namely King Young and Usoffa Abdulla.)

Even better, Oneselves includes every single one of the multiples from the Book of Lists #2, with the exception of Anna Winsor/Old Stump. (And I GUESS Gina Rinaldi, but that's because BOL#2 totally screwed the pooch on that one and got their facts all messed up.  I mention in my notes on the post that I couldn't find Rinaldi referenced anywhere, that she was the Amazing Disappearing Multi, but the reality was so much weirder.  It looks like Gina Rinaldi was a subsystem of Chris Costner Sizemore!  Quoting from the Schizophrenia Bulletin, vol. 4, number 2, in 1978: "Integral to the first part of the case report on the 'Three Faces of Eve' is the background and chronology of one of Eve's multiple personalities [headmades], Gina Rinaldi.  Her intelligence and cooperation made psychogenetic material easy to obtain, and access to one of her subselves, Mary Sushine, was a significant breakthrough..." No wonder I couldn't find her, Jesus Christ!) So I can toss out the BOL#2's unsourced, mostly garbled crap and just replace it with this slim volume on my shelf.

 

Date: 2020-03-11 03:57 am (UTC)
lithophiles: Medium-sized rocks of varying colors and shapes in a stone wall. (Default)
From: [personal profile] lithophiles
Well, I'll be damned, you're right, Jonah et al are referenced in Sybil towards the end! Totally forgot that (but then, our mind has mostly purged all memory of that book--more than y'all's, apparently).

We sort of imprinted on it in high school because we were covertly thinking of it as How To Plural. We can still recite whole passages of it that we would really like to be able to forget. x_x The Jonah reference, though, wasn't something we consciously thought about much. It just got triggered back into consciousness when we read the names, apparently.

William James is someone we would... recommend reading only in excerpts if you don't have a lot of time and patience, because his writing is very, very sloggy to wade through, and we've only gotten through excerpts. I mean, it's MEANINGFUL slog, not like the Bad Translations From French Is How To Write Queer Theory school (he could read Janet et al in the original French, so he didn't need bad translations), but it's slog nonetheless.

We didn't get treatment for it either, we didn't realize until adulthood that concussions are apparently kind of a big deal?

Concussions and TBIs can be really tricky business, which is acknowledged even by doctors who deal with them. Two people can get the exact same head injury and one will recover while the other develops impairments, and there's still no good way to predict who will go in which direction. Some people also have no "typical" concussion symptoms and think they're fine, only to find themselves struggling with cognitive impairments of some kind later.

It sounds for you guys, though, like the line from trauma to plurality was a lot more straightforward. I mean, only you're the ones who can judge for sure, but. We've also come across a few writings on Ye Olde Multiples in which vague terminology like "struck on the head" seemed to be a euphemism for abuse that extended far beyond that one incident. Doris Fischer, one of the other systems who's not talked about much any more, was alleged to have become multiple when she was "thrown roughly to the floor" by her father, and I was like..... yeeeaaah, I'm not quite buying that. (Also can't remember if it was Michael Kenny or Ian Hacking who said this, but whoever it was said that in one of Morton Prince's writeups about "B C A," he seemed to be skirting around saying that being raped by her husband was the trigger for them becoming plural.)

-Amaranth
Edited Date: 2020-03-11 07:20 am (UTC)

Date: 2020-03-13 11:26 am (UTC)
polyfrazzlemented: (Default)
From: [personal profile] polyfrazzlemented
I think part of this is the statistics that 90-something percent of DID cases are "covert," and it takes the average patient who gets diagnosed around 7 years in therapy to get diagnosed. (For us, it was 12 years, and we had to figure it out ourselves first. No therapist we saw had any clue. We've also seen multiple pretty clear cases of DID, in retrospect, that we had no idea what we were looking at when we saw them.)

"Overt"/"florid" DID is rare, and in our experience usually manifests once the system is relatively physically safe (which is less likely to happen to a system experiencing severe systematic oppression). Or else "overt" DID manifests during a crisis as dissociative psychosis (paper written by Turkish doctors), which is easy to misdiagnose as a primary psychotic disorder. This happened to our brother, on our watch, and we're now kicking ourselves for letting it happen. We had no idea what was going on then.

There's a lot of evidence that trauma -> dissociation -> multiplicity is not a culture-bound syndrome; but the way it manifests, if it manifests "overtly," is very culturally influenced.

Date: 2020-03-13 12:14 pm (UTC)
polyfrazzlemented: (Default)
From: [personal profile] polyfrazzlemented
Just found this article on dissociative disorders in Black South Africans. I really ought to read the entire archives of Dissociation...

Also, gotta love the paper saying that none of the patients reported sexual violence, but one of them talked about it extensively while in an agitated state they read as psychotic (dissociatively or otherwise). All the doctors our brother saw did that to him too, and allowed our mother free access to him even though he reported things she'd done to him. Including when he was over 18 and asked not to have any contact with her; they violated HIPAA and told her everything he said.
Edited Date: 2020-03-13 12:18 pm (UTC)
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